Fundamentalist Christians and the American Left

Why is it that Fundamentalist/ Evangelical Christians feel that they are on the Right side of the political spectrum?  They want to be able to tell others how to live their life through political regulation.  That doesn’t sound like the Right to me.

The Left side of the political spectrum is larger, more powerful government that tells people how to live their lives, and the Right is a smaller, less intrusive government that leaves people to their own devices.  How can you say that gays can’t get married or that a woman can’t have an abortion* and still say that you are on the Right?

I know why you feel that you must do this.  I grew up in a Catholic household, in a majority Catholic city, in a majority Catholic state, and attended a Catholic school for 9 years.  Believe me, I have heard all of the arguments before - “It says it right here in the Bible,” “They are sinning and we must save their souls,” “They don’t know about the Word of God, and it is up to us to teach it to them,” etc, etc, etc.

But, all of these arguments just prove my point.  You are using your beliefs to rule someone else’s life.  Our Constitution guarantees people in our country certain freedoms, one of which is the pursuit of happiness**.  This means that people are allowed to live how ever they want, as long as they are not impinging on the rights of others.  When you use government regulations to force someone to live how you want them to instead of how they want to, you are impinging on their rights.

If all of this preaching actually did any good, you wouldn’t have to do it.  The entire world would have become Christian 500 years ago when the Europeans started trying to spread it around the world.  In fact many, many atheists say that the reason that the are atheists is that they were tired of people pushing their beliefs down his throat (don’t believe me?  Go to www.atheistforums.com.  There are many, many posts that say exactly that).  Did you know that preaching in public is actually a sin? ***

You will just have to live with the fact that not everyone will live the way that you want them to.  This is the United States of America, and people have the Constitutional right to live how ever they want to, as long as they are not negatively affecting others.  How will gays getting married negatively affect you?  There is no right to not be offended, and that is the only “problem” that this will cause you.

You must get over the fact that people will do things that you don’t like.  You live a life that they find reprehensible, and you feel the same about them.  If people were supposed to all be the same, we wouldn’t need laws, we wouldn’t have countries, and we wouldn’t have different religions.  This is the way that the world works.  Get used to it.

People are always going to see things differently.  This is how God made us.  I think even Fundamentalists can appreciate that.


* -  I believe that abortion is an abomination, but who am I to tell someone how they can and can’t live?  It is not up to me to get someone else into Heaven.  I have my own family to worry about.  God gave us all free will, and the woman is a grown up who can make her own decisions.  She is the one that will have to deal with the consequences of her actions, here on Earth and after she dies.

** -  This phrase is actually in the Declaration of Independence, but the idea is carried over into the Constitution and is one of the reasons that it was drawn up in the first place.
   -  6/15/2010 Edit - I have recently found out an interesting story concerning this phrase.  It was originally supposed to be the word property, but the Founders knew that the Southerners would use this as a justification for owning slaves (they were considered property).  Once changed to pursuit of happiness, slavery was no longer condoned in the Constitution.  The only reason that it was not outlawed was that the Southern Delegation threatened to start their own country (and not join the U.S.), and there was no way for the Colonies to win the war with England without them.

*** -  Mathew 6:5-8 - these are Jesus’ own words, and they come directly before He teaches the Lord’s Prayer.

⁵And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full. ⁶But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. ⁷And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words. ⁸Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him.

How Each Side Views the Other

How Christians View Atheism

The belief that there was nothing and nothing happened to nothing and then nothing magically exploded for no reason, creating everything and then a bunch of everything magically rearranged itself for no reason what so ever into self replicating bits which then turned into dinosaurs.

How Atheists View Christianity

The belief that some cosmic Jewish zombie can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him that you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in all of humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat fruit from a magical tree.

Answers to Questions Asked By a Reader

This post was originally supposed to be a response to a comment left on the post entitled, "Mathematical Reason to Believe in God."  But, seeing as how I do not know how to shut up (or, quit typing in this case), I decided to make it a full post.

If you have anything at all to say to this, please feel free to leave a comment here or on the original post.

____________________


Randall,

Thanks for the comment.  I appreciate that you have stated your beliefs in an informed manner, but without the condescending tone that usually accompanies comments in this type of discussion.  I frequent a number of different atheistic and agnostic websites, and have seen many times the vitriolic hatred that some people have for anything that resembles Christianity (and vice versa).

Here is my response to your comment:


1.) How do you know that there is only one God?  Or, for that matter, any gods?

I consider myself to be as much of a Deist as you can be and still consider yourself a Christian.  I believe that a Higher Intelligence exists, regardless of whether or not it is the Christian god.  I do understand that there may be numerous gods, and I understand that there may be no gods.  I also DO believe in Evolution.  I will never believe in Creationism, as there is no proof for it.  The Creation story was written as it was because the people of the time did not understand science, and needed some way to explain the world around them.  The idea of a 6,000 year old Earth became famous during the late 17th and early 18th Centuries, when Sir Isaac Newton set out to determine the age of the Earth using the genealogies listed in the Old Testament (this was also done by many others before and after Newton).


2.) How do you know which religion to choose?  What about how to choose the specific sect of that religion?

I do not think that God, if he exists, cares if you are Catholic, Baptist, Jewish, Islamic, or you have ever even heard of God.  He made us the way that we are, and so understands that we are inherently afraid of that which is different than we are (hence racism, sexism, gay bashing, and many other problems that plague the human race).  This protected our ancestors from being eaten by lions or killed by a different tribe.  

As long as you live a good life, full of the things that are considered right in any culture (helping those in need, respect for your fellow man, taking care of your family, etc), you will be rewarded.  Even the Catholic Church admits that God will probably not send the indigenous tribesmen of the Amazon to Hell, seeing that many of them have no idea what civilization is, let alone have been exposed to Christianity.  So, this means that it does not matter what religion you follow, as long as you do what is right.

3.) If God is all knowing, won't he be upset that you choose to believe in him for selfish reasons?

Why else would you believe in God (or gods) if not to get into Heaven?  The whole idea is to benefit yourself in the long run, and God set it up like that on purpose.  Why would he punish us for doing what it is in our nature to do (as stated earlier)?  Everything that anyone does, regardless of what they say and what you think, is done for selfish reasons.  Why do people donate to charities?  Selfishness; it makes them feel good about themselves (I didn't make this up - it is a fact of psychology).

4.) Your argument assumes that people can choose to believe in something, regardless of what the evidence or lack of evidence shows.   Mark Twain said, "Faith is believing what you know ain't so." That quote is funny because reasonable people can't do that.

as far as evidence is concerned, I do not believe in most of the aspects of "Christianity" that the fundamentalists and evangelicals do.  They have no proof for the fact that the Earth is 6,000 years old, and we have tons of evidence for an age of 4.6 billion years.  My father is a geologist, so I grew up to have a great love of geology, geological history, and paleontology.  I will argue along side any atheist, any day of the week, against the fire and brimstone Christians on this and numerous other topics.

But, there is no proof that God does not exist, just that he doesn't exist in the manner described by the backwoods, ignorant preachers.  As soon as certain questions are answered, I will stop believing in God.  Among these answers that I seek is this: What started the Big Bang?  Besides geology, I also love astrophysics and astronomy (even if I only have an elementary understanding of each!).  I understand, and am starting to believe in, the Multiverse Theory, so know that the matter that comprises our solar system may have come through a worm hole or black hole from another universe.  But there had to be something, somehow, that got everything started in another universe.  Before the Big Bang (whatever Universe the original was in), there was nothing, not even space itself.  So, if there was nothing, how did something just magically appear?  Nothing can appear in a vacuum without something else putting it there in the first place, and nothing can appear out of nothing.

there is strong evidence that life sprang into existence (I use that term loosely) at the thermal vents at mid-oceanic ridges.  There is also evidence that life DOES NOT need water to survive, or even to come into existence.  But how?  A group of proteins just all of a sudden decided to become a living organism that can replicate on its own?  the Australian cyanobacteria and stromatolites are the oldest known creatures, and are thought to be the original life on Earth.  How did they begin?  You mean to tell me that amino acids just magically decided to start eating and having sex?  well, the first lifeforms were asexual, but I think you get the point.

If you can show me evidence to the contrary for any of the above, I will stop using them as a reason to say that a higher intelligence exists.  But until that time, I will do what all good scientists must do, and continue to believe that it is at least possible until all doubt has been removed.


*  I would love to provide links for everything in this article, but some topics came out of books that I have lying around the house (textbooks, books bought at Borders, etc).  If you would like to know what information came from what book, please leave a comment, and I will get that information to you as soon as possible.
Edit - 2/11/2014 - Awe, Borders.  I miss you.  Frowny face.

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Why Are Preachers Always the Most Bigoted People?

Why is is that preachers, who are supposed to preach love and teach you how to live like God wants you to, are always the most bigoted people around?  They tell you to hate gay people, they tell you to hate Jews, they tell you to hate Muslims.  They even tell you to hate Christians!  One of the groups of people that Preachers hate the most is Catholics (this is going to be the main point of this post).  I am sick and tired of people thinking that Catholics are bad just because their bigoted preacher tells them that they are.  Ask anyone who thinks that Catholics are going to Hell why they think that way, and they can't tell you.  Oh, they will try to come up with some way to justify their thoughts, but they can't actually point out anything.  Well, other than the dumbass pedophile priests.  But this has been going on for centuries, while the child molestation has been happening for 25-30 years (that we know of).

Everything can always be traced back to (at least) one of these two things: Money and Power.

Through out history, everything has been about one of these two.  Ironically, the Catholic Church is a great example of this.  Through out most of its history, powerful people have been attracted to the Church's ability to mandate exactly how you should live your life.  Power hungry people are attracted to places with lots of power, and it was much easier to gain power through the Church than it was to become a King.  This has caused some of the worst tragedies since the beginning of mankind.  Well, until Communism came along (I doubt it if the Catholic Church had 120 million people put to death in less than a century as Communism has).  I am planning on writing a longer, much better researched post on this topic, so be on the look out in the near future for a great history of the corruption of the Catholic Church though out it's 2,000 year history and how it applies to our world today.

The power hungry will always look for ways to get more power and more money, and religion is a great way to accomplish this.  Once you have become a member of a church, you have accepted the minister as your spiritual guide.  So, you have already made up your mind that he is correct, and that you will follow his advice no matter what he says.  So, when he says that certain people are going to Hell because they don't do exactly what he (supposedly) does, you will believe it.

The Catholic Church is one of the only two churches on Earth that can trace their heritage directly back to Jesus (the other being Greek Orthodox), so how exactly is your preacher right when he says that the church that Jesus created is wrong?  Didn't your church break away and start doing things different from the way that Jesus said to do them?  Oh, I'm wrong about that?  What about the fact that Most Bibles have missing Books called the Apocrypha?  And no, I'm not talking about the Dead Sea Scrolls.  No Bible has never contained those.  They were left out when the Council of Nicea decided which Christian Holy Books would be included in the Bible, which happened in 325 AD (I think).  I am talking about books that were originally included, but where removed by Protestant reformers during the 17th Century.

Sure, in historical times the Catholic Church was used by the power hungry to oppress the masses and obtain more power.  But the roles have now changed.  The Catholic Church has now moved to the position that it should have held through history, and Protestant churches have become the centers of power and corruption.
How many times have you seen a preacher driving a Jaguar?  I know I've seen many.  Why do they need you to keep donating money?  Where does it go?  Why is it that they NEVER have money, and ALWAYS need you to give more?

At least with Catholic Priests, you know that they do not have a family to support, and so they are not worried about getting money to buy their wife a new BMW or needing to send their kids to college.  They have taken a vow of poverty and chastity, and so are not worried about the things that money can buy.  They know that if they forgo those things here on Earth, they will have a special place in Heaven.  Your preacher, on the other hand, does not feel this way.  And I've heard all of the arguments about priests being able to get married leading to them not molesting children.  But thats not allowed today, and you complaining about it on this blog will do nothing but make you look like an idiot with no argument against what I have posted.  So don't.

Th more that your preacher talks bad about the Catholic Church, the less likely it is that you will leave his church.  If he can keep you there, he will get more money.  The larger the congregation is, the more power he has.  So, you see, everything is about money and power.

I'm not sure about other people, but I know that I have never heard ANY Catholic priests talk bad about anyone.  The Pope says some things about homosexuality and abortion, but he usually says nothing about the people involved.  "Hate the sin, not the sinner".  Hating the sinner (or the Catholic, in this case) makes you no better than those idiots from Kansas that protest at soldiers funerals.  The only difference is that they have taken the messages of your preacher to their inevitably violent ends.  Do you really want to be associated with those dumbasses?

Now, I know that not all preachers are this way.  There are some that are truly doing what they do because they feel like they have been called by God.  But, the majority of the ones that I have come into contact with are exactly as I have described.  And before you go off in a comment about how your preacher is the greatest thing on Earth and is only doing Gods bidding and is better than me, ask your self these questions:

1. Does my preacher have a nice car, or is he driving an old beat up jalopy?
2. Does my preacher's wife have nice jewelry?  Nice clothes?  A nice car?  Are these things nicer than the average person's in my congregation?  
3. Is my preacher ALWAYS asking for more money?  Does he let you see what he does with that money?
4. Does my preacher ever talk bad about others?  Why does he do this?
5. Does my preacher tell us that the only way to get into Heaven is by doing what he does?  Or does he let the Bible speak for itself? (hint: most have no idea what the TRUE meaning behind the Bible is)

As an example of preachers that are like this, please see:

1. Jimmy Swaggart - frequent visits to prostitutes; lived the life of his cousins Jerry Lee Lewis and Mickey Gilley (that he made a career railing against)
2. Billy Graham - divorce; money whore
3. Joel Olsteen - largest church in the country, makes million of dollars every year (what happened to "The meek will inherit the Earth?")
4. Jerry Falwell - preached hate against homosexuals and Jews (kinda like Hitler did!)
5. Jesse Jackson - racist; hate monger
6. Al Sharpton - Tawana Brawly; racist; hate monger
7. Jim Bakker - charged by the Federal Government with 24 counts of fraud and conspiracy
8. Ted Haggard - preached hate against gays, but was let go from his position as pastor of New Life Church because of sexual relations with a male escort
9. John Hagee - made claims in one of his books that Jesus is not the son of God
10. Pat Robertson - claimed that Hurricane Katrina and the Haiti earthquake were done by God because people sin

All of these men claim(ed) to do Gods work and claim to be oh-so-holy, yet they lead lives completely at odds with everything the Bible says.  Some did horrible things, and some merely followed the context of this post and did everything that they could to get more and more money.  The seduction of power and money is great, and these men made the "best" of their situation in regards to these.

Remember, the only time that Jesus ever became angry was when the money changers were in the Temple.  Sounds oddly similar to everything that has been described here.